I agree. It will be the Aflac program. Insurance and supplemental insurance. And it is needed. In this example the gentleman with high blood pressure will be covered under basic needs. Cosmetic, Lasik, etc should be supplemental.

I just wish that small business wouldn't be forced to pay for it. Or if it is, protect us via Tariffs from foreign under priced imports that don't have to add that as part of their costs. Especially when they benefit from our US Taxpayer Funded stimulus programs.

America already has the best medical care, why do the liberals seem to think that this single payer plan is going to solve the problems? It is going to drive the Doctors into private groups where membership is cost prohibitive for the middle class and lower income groups. So far, I see that the best care will go to the people with the most money, slip a few bucks to the admitting nurse, slip a few more to the nurse on duty, and slip a few more to the doctor in order to skip to the head of the line.

This is how the wealthy stay healthy in other countries, do you really think they will stand in line like the rest of the middle class? I believe that even the welfare health care will go ahead of us who help fund the machine. low income health care is better than my $35 a visit health care with no deductible (5k deductible) or co-pays. The hospital can charge the Government Premium prices on the tax payers dime.

Who is to blame for these issue? Unions like SEIU, Lawyers who demand huge malpractice awards, drug companies who pass the cost of development on to Americans because other countries put a cap on the cost of drugs. Hospitals, who double and triple charge because the insurance company limits them, but the co-pays and deductibles will make up the difference.

Medicare with a Supplemental Part B Policy is the best health insurance in the world, and Medicaid and Veterans Affairs (VA) Health are additional examples of government run health care programs . . .

Medicare and Medicaid are administered in a way similar to NASA, where government employees provide high-level management but private contractors do most of the actual day-to-day work, with the private contractors typically being the same insurance companies that provide private health insurance . . .

VA Health is a bit different, since it has separately owned and operated government facilities and staff, but it also relies on private contractors and services . . .

And there are foreign service (embassy) and military hospitals, clinics, and personnel, and there is a Surgeon General, as well as a Secretary of the Health and Human Services . . .

Most hospitals have semi-private and private rooms for patients, when it is practical, which one might suppose is an instance of "two-tier" health care . . .

The only exception to the general rule occurs when very wealthy people decide to pay in cash for their health care, which is something that very wealthy people should be able to do . . .

Otherwise, it does not matter so much whether health insurance is provided by the government or by private companies, except that there tends to be more sneaky weaseling in the private sector, because there are fewer overseers . . .

In the grand scheme of everything, a two-tier system is a lot better than the current three-tier system, where the middle tier is overrun by sneaky weasels who provide no actual health care, since their only concern is extracting as much money from the wallets and purses of their "customers" as possible . . .

When a health care system routinely by design denies even the most basic health care to one sixth of the population, it is broken, and it has failed . . .

All the so-called "pubic vs. private" stuff is complete and total nonsense, especially when one considers that the public pays for the first 12 years of education for medical doctors, nurses, medical technicians, pharmacists, and everyone else who attends public schools or receives government reimbursement for charter and private schools . . .

Doctors, nurses, and quite a few other medical personnel certainly need to be paid handsomely, if only because their work is not so glamorous all the time with respect to dealing with every aspect of human anatomy and physiology, including life and death, but medicine is as much a profession as it is a public service . . .

Medical personnel are licensed by the state, and they are granted authority and privileges that are not available to the common folk . . .

For the most part, the government tends to use an "at arm's length" strategy with respect to administering, managing, and regulating health care, but there is no legally authorized private health care system in our great nation, and there has been no legally authorized private health care system in our great nation at least since the 19th century . . .

So, as you observe all the various arguments, opinions, and discussions, it is useful to focus on facts rather than beliefs and to realize that there is something patently evil about a health care system that denies even the most basic health care to one sixth of the citizens of our great nation . . .

Sometime in the future, historians will refer to this time as the Era of Sneaky Weaseling, and the longer we as a nation encourage and tolerate sneaky weaseling, the longer we will suffer the consequences . . .

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Fabulous!

Why are people always trying to run someone else's business? The doctors should be able to do what they want. They went to school for 12 years to make alot of money. They sacrificed to get ahead. If you want superior care at the doctor sacrifices to pay for it or don't it is your decision. I hardly go to the doctor. But if I feel I am sick enough to go. I can't get in because of the people that think if they have a sniffle they need to go. Wait until this worthless healthcare reform gets passed. You will sit at home and die on your couch because you can't get in to see a doctor.

As with so many things, the problem AND the answer are not black and white. On the one hand the medical profession should do everything possible to ensure that we ALL recieve the best care possible. On the other hand the medical profession is also obligated to pay decent wages and to pay the operating expenses related to their facility. Insurance companies also have the right to take in enough money to pay the saleries, benifits and expenses related to their business. If their expenses are exceeding their income they should just raise their prices. If the CEO wants a billion dollars a year then they should raise their premiums accordingly.

To the contrary, what the insurance companies do is use every trick in the book, use that infamouse fine print and multi, multi page policy documents to boost their profits by denying coverage after years of collecting premiums, by excluding whole groups of people from coverage. The most reprehensible act of all is the limiting of payments AND delay of payments to providers. If you are even a day late with your premium (or decide that since you haven't used the insurance for a year and cut the payment) the insurance company drops you like a hot potatoe. On the other hand they cut a Providers bill in half and then take 90 days to pay it. And these practices cause the madical providers to raise thier rate to cover the loses generated by the insurance company practices.

The unfortunate thing is that we, as consumers don't have the luxury of shoping around. For most of us, independant premiums are totally outside most peoples income levels. And the insurance "provided" by employers is based on what type of coverage they can negotiate from the insurance company.

That is why I am in favor of the public option or better yet the establishment of nationwide pools for those of us who choose to shop around. Naturally the insurance companies are dead set against this because it might limit their quasi monopoly.

benramz2. News flash. We are ranked 37th in the world in overall healthcare; right behind Mongolia!

Baldinero you are milking off the public trough. If we go to a single payer system with supplements like Medicare, the whole economic system of this country will collapse of it's own weight. You are short-sighted, naive, and have no real idea of how the Medicare system really works. You only know that it takes care of you.

"I can't get in because of the people that think if they have a sniffle they need to go."

So you want to deny people the right to see a doctor - you want to deny them the care they are PAYING for, so YOU can see the doctor? How about this. How about calling earlier, or not calling for a sniffle yourself?! Why do you take precedence over people who called before you? That's the name of the game! And they are paying their bills just like you!

I go to the doctor once every 2 years for a DOT physical. And I've been to the doctor twice in the past 20 years for a sickness. I think alot of people go to the doctor for minor things that they could just stay home a day and it will go away. I make sure that I really need to go before I go. I've waited 2 days to go to the doctor with broken bones. Making sure it just wasn't a deep bruise. Most minor things that I'm talking about people wasting Doctor's time on will go away after a day. But when you don't have to pay the doctor. Why not go. Heathcare reform wil make it worse. If you or your child needs care. They won't be able to get it because of all the freeloaders. And wimps.

Livid in America - what are the rankings based upon?

Have you ever been outside the US and seen the medical care in other countries? Do you have any idea who really gets the care at the hospitals and healthcare that were ranked? I have been to Russia, seen the bribery to get faster care, seen the hospitals in China and Japan. Trust me you don't want to go there.

You should be able to pay more to get better service. Just like you should earn more for working harder. Everybody in this country are not equal. Why do we think everything needs to be equal for everybody. Just wait until the healthcare reform gets passed. The people that bust their butts to take care of their families won't be able to get in because all the slackers who get free insurance. One day people will decide it isn't worth working hard because they gain nothing for doing it. No incentive to get ahead. That is the direction this country is going.

And that's not a bad thing. Everyone has access to healthcare but people need to understand the care isn't the same. If you have public care, you get the care, you just have to wait, share a hospital room with 5-7 other people, or go through certain hurdles. If you pay for private care, you get that private room, immediate care, and longer times with the doctor.

Why is this a problem in the US with people who want universal care when this is what is happening in Canada, the UK, and Switzerland?

My theory: because people in the US want everything for nothing.

I hope that politicians clarify what public/govt run care includes because people will be pissed when they get the free care but have to wait or share a hospital room. And I'll be pissed if I have to pay for public care to include private rooms and spa like bath robes.

Nice post Marie. Maybe they can even go to colleges to get treatment from students. The professors could be there to see if the student is giving a good opinion on what is wrong. They will still get care. At minimal or no cost.

Norwegian conservatives got their asses kicked in Norway's recent election because they wanted to introduce the market into their health care system. The message was loud and clear: We don't want to be like the Americans who go broke-and die anyway.

Two-tier in Canada. I just checked out the OHIP site and in Ontario, healthcare is covered except for cosmetic surgery. Universal healthcare is a top priority in Canada - any politician who messes with it will find himself voted out of office so fast his/her head would spin. That's the beauty of a parliamentary system - you can vote the bums out before their 4-yr term is up. And speaking of those 'bums' - why is it that NOT ONE politician is publicly advocating that every American citizen be eligible for the level of care that we pay them to have????

If we didn't give them good benefits they would go work for someone else. You think you deserve the same? Just for living in the U.S. Why don't you bring a homeless person into your house?So he can have the same as you. It's not going to happen. Because he is below you. Answer to your comment.

We have ALWAYS had 'concierge' medical care in the US. It wasn't as obvious because we haven't been in this current climate of having limited resources with so many requiring/demanding access to them as we do now. Also, third party payors (insurance companies) have hobbled our ability to charge or not charge patients who we'd give deep discounts to back in the day. Things have NEVER been what you thought they were.
Your doctor ALWAYS gave preferential treatment to 'certain' patients who he either saw at home, before or after hours and whose care was rendeed as a 'professional courtesy' and who NEVER had a visible medical record. Those days are OVER. If I wanted to give you a steep discount - I am now prohibited from doing so because of insurance law. I can't forgo your copay unless I want the insurance nazi's all over my practice. So many physicians now look to this new model. Most can't afford it and no one really prefers this practice configuration. However, for some who want a degree of independence in their practices, it's the only way. The insurance industry is far too powerful and physicians can no longer practice as they did in the 60s, 70s and early 80s.

Um, Golfermom, the Senate bill requires that all federal employees (including the elected kind) participate in exactly the same insurance exchanges the rest of us will have. You can look it up in the bill. There are several levels of care available at various prices. And, btw, they actually do pay premiums now.

If someone offers you $10 for your effort and someone else offers you $20, who do you go with? Doctors are technicians just like every other profession.

See? Health Care Insurance isn't Health Care.

We already have a two tiered system. people wo can afford health insurance and people who can't.

America is a pretty disgusting immoral place right now. We need more people that actually care about other people besides themselves.

And some of these Republicans actually call themselves Christians. That's a joke. Greed and Christianity don't go to together, so if you don't wish to help the less fortunate with their healthcare, then you must really hate what Jesus taught.

benramz - I have been outside the US. I've lived in France and Japan and I can tell you 1st hand the medical care is superior to what my family and I have rec'd here. I have found one doc truly worth going to and she doesn't accept insurance; I have to pay out of pocket while still paying hundreds of dollars each pay period for insurance to cover what she doesn't do. Our health care system was killed by HMO's and other insurance company money making ideas that short change doctors & patients. By the way, not only did we receive better health care outside the US, it cost a lot less.

So why is it cheaper everywhere else? Do these other countries make all their people work and pay high taxes. To pay or do they have awelfare system like us.

Why is it that the old American way of business and life has to change. Have you all forgot that is what made this country great. Work for what you get. If someone wants to pay extra for better treatment then it should be alright. His priorities are higher.

JimmyH...

Aren't private health insurers also considered private - as in not government - insurance? The idea of having private insurance via an employer or purchased individually for your family and then having to pay a hefty additional fee just to gain access to your physician is nothing more than gouging by the doctor. If someone wants to pay that additional fee and get additional attention, that's their business. However, my level of access and care should not be compromised or reduced in order to cater to those who want to buy their doctor's time.

There is also an ethics question here. "First, do no harm" is the credo of doctors. If a physician does harm by passing over a critically ill patient in favor of a wellness visit by someone paying for the concierge program, then the doctor is doing harm. It's going to be a slippery slope to watch.

I'm a pain in my doctor's butt. I ask too many questions for him and do not just do what he tells me to do. I don't like my prescriptions being rearranged for no reason at all. I don't like lying in a hospital bed for 2 or 3 days because they can't get some test scheduled, especially when I know it can be handled on an out patient basis. I don't like having to get an appointment to see him just to get a prescription refill---another waste of money. The truth is that he doesn't have to accept me as a patient and shortly he may not. Doctors can pick and choose who they treat in private practice.

Absolutely correct. The good doctors and the ones that see the writing on the wall as to payments for services and required regulations, are forming self made companies that will provide services outside the government mandated and not participate in the Obama healthcare system. Eventually, you get what you pay for, either through the public healthcare system or the private healthcare system, as in the other world countries.

Best health care in America? Umm the stats have been out for a long time. We rank dead last in civil countries. This is fact, get everyones head out of the sand!!!

I want to be a republican when I grow up, this way I could print anything and still call them facts.

This is not a racist issue. This is not a have and have not issue. It is not is we have healthcare or not. It is an issue of the cost. This bill satisfies those who wnat something for nothing. ANd those of us who work will have to pay for it. Bottom line.

Fact of life. There are rich people. There are poor people. Then there are those of us who work and make a meager living. That is how life is. It isn't going to change. If you are sick why do I have to work and pay to make you well? Please someone answer that one with more then just it is the right thing to do crap. ANd leave out the healthy society make a more productive theory as well. Those are excuses. Need an answer with some meat in it. WHy am I responsible for your health? Take it down to an individual level. One on one. Look at how silly this whole idea is.

I do not want to pay for people who have a drug problem which causes there other problems. Drugs are not the cause of their problems. It is the symptom of their bad chices. SO you want me to pay for people's bad choices?

Most of the cost of heath care is from the government in the first place. Medicare. That program caused and increase on individual care. Don't turn and eye away from the truth. People aways want the truth but they cannot stand to hear it.

Frankly I could care less if you are sick. I do not want to listen to your hardluck stories. taht is not my job. No more than it is yours to listen or care about mine. People think they have a right to cars, cell phones, healthcare, homes, drugs, and entertainment. Wrong. Go get a job and earn and buy those things. They are not rights but are conviences. I do not buy into all the hype. We are ruining the last totally free country on the face of the earth with all of this silly legislation.

Sorry if this is too direct and to the point. But with all of the junk floating around it is hard to get to the root of the problem. One thing for sure. This bill is not the answer. Look at Social security, medicare. and income tax. Any American that has a job knows exactly what I am talking about. Those who have no clue, don't work and are part of the problem.

I wonder what would happen if the best care came through the public sector that was very affordable, under 50 bucks a month as a huge phone company charges and still pays insurance for all their employees and makes a profit. iIn addition, the public system would be financially helped with perks coming from the drug companies because the public sector health care was their biggest customer.

Maybe the "private" doctors wouldn't be so greedy then, I haven't ever seen a doctor without a home smaller than 5000 sq ft, they're not hurting, they just want as much as they can get at any cost. I build high end cabinets, so I see first hand. e.g. (true story) the doctor on the phone with his retirement broker as he does surgery on a patient. I want that doctor, don't you?

Phazfun. What makes it right for us to say doctors make too much? WHat gives us the right to legislate how much they can make? What gives us the right to judge them by how much they have? Are we that jealous and envious?

This is not a what if but the truth. A public healthcare plan is funded by the working public. The Governmetn has no money. Even if they were not in debt they have no money. Their money comes from tax dollars from working citizens. At least doctors provide a service to earn their money. Think about it for a second. if we allow the Governemtn to take over healthcare they can go all the way down to a lowly peon like me and regulate what my income is. That is the problem. And the American people eat this garbage up like candy.

Dear Concerned 75, And I assume that 75 was the year you were born. I would like to bring you up to date on a little history regarding Social Security, Medicare, and your own well being.

First, Social Security and Medicare. When Social Security was first set up it was a separate fund used to provide a minimum living lifestyle for those not fortunate to have amassed huge summs of money. Back in the 60's Congress decided to take the private SS fund and mix it in with the general fund thus robbing it of the ability to ensure a sufficient funds for the SS reciptients. So if it goes broke, blame congress. Medicare was also envisioned as a medical assistance for the elderly also funded by SS. Unfortunately, this also was bastardized & robbed to provide for people who should have been covered under a universal health care or welfare.

The only other thing I would like to suggest is that, Heaven forbid, you find yourself unable to work due to catastrophic illness, your insurance company canceled you and you would would be out of money. Please just follow your own attitudes and fall on your sword so that the rest of us would not have to pay for your medical care.

How about if mechanics would only work on your car if you paid them a retainer or "concierge" fee? Or required an extra fee for better or faster service?

Maybe service providers in other industries should make the doctors pay a fee if they want to be served by them. Fair is fair.

Mike you made my point for me. I do blame the Government. They bastardsize and rob. The two examples you made were SS and medicare. And now we want them to do the same with Healthcare insurance? That is my whole point in a nutshell. They never get it right and we pay the price. This will be no different. Yes History proves me right. thanks for bringing it up. All of these wonderful visions do not work the way as intended. Read history.

I would be more than happy to fall on my sword if I become seriously ill. However that is not legal in this country. No one can be denied healthcare. ANd guess what. the tax payers pay for it. Duh. Here again blame the government for rising cost.

But the point is this. It is up to me to plan for my future. In planning for it. I must plan for the worse. That includes serious illness. Thus I buy insurance. to cover the worst. taht is the purpose of insurance. Somehow we have gotten it to where they cover a sniffle too. Thus higher cost. SO yes I would fall on my sword if I did not plan well for the future. Same when a parent has a child. It is a risk that child be born healthy. Either way it is the parents responsibility to care for that child. BAd things happen in life. We must deal with it and move on. Then we will have a country that is truely free. Personal responsibility. Not the Government needs to take care of me attitude.

I wish you well. You are young, with all the dreams, arguments and attitudes of the young. Prepare well, carry a billion dollars worth of insurance. (And that might not be enough.)

But remember your statement, If it doesn't work out for you, If all your plans and preparations fall short - Do Not Let Yourself Become A Burden For The Taxpayer.

For all the cynical Republicans and conservatives who apparently are quite pleased with a health care system that serves them but denies even the most basic health care to the less fortunate, Baldenario applauds your self-centered greed but advises you that while it might an excellent strategy when one is considering various modes of transportation (for example, the merits of riding in a luxury car versus traveling on a mass transit bus), in the health care arena it is patently ignorant to have one- sixth of the people in our great nation unable to get adequate health care . . .

The only exception occurs for those few fabulously wealthy folks like Howard Hughes who can afford to hire Mormons to carry him around while wearing protective gear and having plenty of Kleenix tissues handy for the few times when one cannot avoid touching a door knob or whatever . . .

Other than that, it is just plain ignorant for a nation to deny basic healthcare to one-sixth of its people . . .

WHY?

Great question!

The primary reason is that the vast majority of the one-sixth of the people in our great nation who do not have even the most basic health care are the folks who do menial jobs in places where the general public is served, for example shredding lettuce for the salad bar; doing janitorial work; and so forth and so on, with some of these folks being homeless, which maps to their sitting on park benches; sleeping at bus stops; using public restrooms and pretty much anywhere else that is convenient at the moment; and so forth and so on . . .

Keeping this in mind, it does not require an advanced degree in Biology, Medicine, or Rocketry to understand fully that that there is a virtual festival of highly communicable diseases, most of which do not involve any type what one might call "romantic interactions" . . .

Instead, these highly communicable diseases are spread by failing to wash hands; by coughing and sneezing; and so forth and so on . . .

And when the folks who the self-centered, greedy, and ungracious Republicans and other so-called "conservatives" label as "welfare bums", "losers", and whatever happen to have tuberculosis in its actively contagious phase, then how bright is it in the grand scheme of everything for a health care system to create the real and tangible circumstance where the only way such folks get treatment is after infecting a sufficient number of other people to create a public health crisis, at which point hundreds of highly trained public health professionals do elaborate work to determine and to locate "patient zero"?

And it is not just the poor, disadvantaged, mentally ill, and downtrodden folks who often have no option in their minds but to avoid medical treatment . . .

Do you remember the attorney from Atlanta, GA who flew all over the world trying to evade public health care officials and law enforcement and who had either Multiple Drug Resistant Tuberculosis (MDRTB) or Extremely Drug-Resistant Tuberculosis (XDRTB) and whose soon-to-be father-in-law actually was an Infectious Disease Researcher for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) who specialized in tuberculosis research?

And since you are a Rocket Scientist, you obviously know that it only requires approximately 8 to 10 bacilli of inhaled tuberculosis mycobacteria to infect a human being and that this quantity of bacilli fits easily into the space by volume of a single 5- micron droplet of fog (a few molecules of water that occupy a space by volume that is 5 millionths of an inch in diameter, to be precise) . . .

You know that, right?

And you also know that a cough or sneeze can propel such 5-micron droplets of sputum or whatever as far as 10 feet . . .

You know that, right?

And because you know a lot of stuff about highly communicable diseases, you are not the least bit concerned that the various common folk who prepare and serve your food might have hepatitis and perhaps are too afraid of losing their jobs to take the time to wash their hands after using the restroom or tend to avoid going to the doctor when they first start feeling a bit more tired than usual, since they have no health insurance and are afraid that if they ask to go to the doctor, they will lose their jobs . . .

You know that, right?

What do you care that 90 percent of the people in India have tuberculosis, when it comes time to fire American workers to save a few dollars and to replace them with foreign workers from India?

And what do you care that in 2007 on average 2 to 3 people died from tuberculosis EVERY MINUTE in India?

Think of all the wonderful, beautiful, lovely, sensual, and exciting money that you are saving, apparently at no cost whatsoever to you with respect to consequences over the long run, other than perhaps death from a highly contagious infectious disease!

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On the one hand, Baldenario is a very gracious fellow, but on the other hand Baldenario wants everyone in our great nation to have readily available basic health care, because Baldenario often ventures into public places to run errands, such as shopping at the local grocery store, and does not want to be forced to deal with a reality in which one must be constantly vigilant and extraordinarily careful about everything one might touch or breathe, since it is quite likely that at this very minute there are plenty of people with highly contagious diseases who are touching, breathing, coughing, sneezing, and whatever on or into something that one might touch or breathe during grocery shopping . . .

What do you care that putting your luxury organic vegetables and fruit on the plastic part of the shopping cart where babies and toddlers with poopy pants and no ready access to basic health care (including routine pediatric vaccinations and so forth) were sitting just a few minutes before you selected that particular shopping cart?

If it is easier for you to understand, then forget about the "kinder and gentler", "thousand points of light", and Golden Rule stuff, and focus on doing everything possible to protect yourself from all the people who avoid medical treatment for a variety of reasons but mostly because they simply cannot afford it . . .

Tuberculosis, hepatitis, mumps, measles, chicken pox, colds, influenza, and so forth and so on do not discriminate, and they infect rich people, conservative jerks, Democrats, Republicans, Marxists, poor people, and the homeless just as readily, and they are highly refined in their infecting skills, because it is all they do, all the time . . .

Certainly, it is considerably more ethical, gracious, and moral to want everyone in our great nation to have basic health care, because you genuinely respect and value human life, but whatever works best for you is fine with Baldenario, so long as it maps to every person in our great nation having ready access in a timely way to basic health care, which includes routine vaccinations and yearly checkups (or at whatever interval the doctor recommends), as well as basic prescription medicines when needed . . .

No matter how you justify it personally, the FACT of the matter is that you benefit significantly in the grand scheme of everything when everyone has basic health care and uses it when it is needed, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!

Honey, what is unfortunate is that the "less fortunate" already HAVE healthcare, but you obviously have no clue about that. I already pay for our seniors to have Medicare, and our poor children and families to have Medicaid, with my taxes, and that is A-OK with me. I just don't want some self-righteous party-walking ignoramus to tell me what I need for healthcare, or that I need to pay for every Tom, Dick, and Harry who doesn't care to work at making his or her life better.

Our healthcare system IS broken, but this garbage that is being rushed through the Senate is not the answer. Health insurance is not a right, it never was, and healthcare is a fee-for-service business. You run the risk of the great doctors in our generation going completely private on a cash-for-service basis only. Unless you want Uncle Sam looking up your crack, you should not support passage of this bill. If you want to throw dollars at the "crisis", do this:

1. Increase the income cap to qualify for Medicaid. Everyone's bills just got bigger, but this cap has not changed enough in the last several years, leaving a large swath of essentially "poor" people without the means to afford any health coverage at all, yet making too much to qualify with the current caps.

2. Create reduced-fee Medicaid option in each state, for those families that are just over the cap and can afford "some" but not all of the premium.

3. Create "Insurer of Last Resort", and make it an ACTUAL last resort, for those who don't have medical insurance and cannot get medical insurance due to a pre-existing condition. Rates should be higher than the national average - sorry but if you drink more milk you gotta pay for more milk. A portion of the premium could be subsidized.

4. Create tougher penalties for insurers who blatantly discriminate or refuse service. Mistakes can happen, as in any business, but some of the coverage refusals are ridiculous and the consequences for those should be severe for the insurer.

5. Create tougher penalties for consumers and physicians who defraud or attempt to defraud insurers. This happens far more than you think.

6. Allow consumers and insurers more flexibility and choice when purchasing insurance. The states should NOT tell insurers what they can and cannot cover. The more government hands that are involved in your policies, the more your policy costs and the less your coverage and pricing will make sense. (look at homeowners insurance, car insurance, and health insurance for examples)

For the record - I don't buy organic, can't afford Whole Foods, I shop at Target/Walmart but wish I could afford somewhere with better quality stuff, I worry about whether I'll have a job tomorrow, I have two kids and take them to public school, my son is involved in the city sports program (not private), I sometimes have a tough time paying my mortgage, I volunteer at least 5 hours a month, and donate what I can to our neighborhood food bank and family center. I'm also NOT a republican, but I AM a conservative Democrat who is SICK and TIRED of my party shoving the far-left agenda down my throat. What exactly do YOU do??

Here again it not about healthcare as a service recieved. it is about who is going to pay for the healthcare we recieve. No one is denied healthcare. There are those denied a level of healthcare (the luxery plan) versus the No thrill plan. The quality of care (the actual care) is the same. Access and creature comforts is the difference. In both groups there are bad doctors or good doctors. If you do not like the doctor choose another.

It is said I young. It is said I am healthy. My views express that. Well no one knows how old I am or my current health status. But one thing is for sure. regardless of my health I do not want to be a burden on the American tax payer. I do not want to be a burden on my familly. That is my burden and mine alone. And that is my right. No one can take that away. I should now and always have the power to choose what is best for me while considering the means I have to obtain it. That is called freedom. My personal freedom. It is all up to me. No I do not believe the American tax payer is responsible for my lack of health caused by poor decisions in my life. I made the decisions I accept the responsibility for them. That my friends is freedom.

A man works 12 hours a day. makes a meager living. Drives a dependable yet not so expensive car. But pays his insurance premiums and his healthcare bill. Now he drives through the government housing areas and see these fine expensive cars in the driveways. people out and about on cell phones. you know the lastest best gagetry, His neighbors have their lights turned off threatened with eviction. But they have beer, drugs and parties going on.

Now we want to look into the man's eyes that works and pays his bills and tell him he must pay more to the Governemtn to pay for the healthcare bills of those who are driving nicer cars, partying, drinking beer.doing drugs and notr working. ANd this is a good thing? Go back and read the grasshopper and the ant. No one onthis earth owes you anything. And you owe no one anything. Plain and simple.

Charity, giving and helping others is a personal choice and should never be forced by law.

And of course all those that can afford it in those countries come to the US for care or go elsewhere - what about all the people that die or can't get in to see a doctor in those countries and they get worse? I say the grass is always greener on the otherside and once you let the government into your health insurance - you'll be moaning then too.

Don't know (though I suspect I do) what country(s) you are referring to but that has not been my families experience with the British health care system. And not everyone comes here...how about figures and not a generalization.

Nor mine or my family's experience w/ the Canadian system....And there are plenty from foreign countries who come to Canada for treatment and care as well. Just because you keep saying that one country's healthcare is the best in the world often enough doesn't make it true.....

And of course we now have Americans going to Singapore, Thailand, India etc to have surgeries that are cheaper and with no waiting.

It appears we have a lawyer posting. My question is this: Would you like the government to cap your fees?

Like it or not, this country subscribes to an elitist theory. Work hard, earn more, get more. If I get the same care whether I work or not, why would I work?

Maybe, Just Maybe, if those other countries hadn't forced big Pharma to charge reasonable prices for their products we wouldn't have to bear the full weight of their bloated profit structures. Let SSI negotiate priceing with the biggies. SSI & Medicare would be in very good shape right now.

Being in the insurance industry, I have many first hand experiences with our current system. There is one thing that has always surprised me. There are groups of employees, even when they have health insurance 100% paid for by their employer, still elect to go to the county hospital for their healthcare. The employees say they do not have health insurance and prefer the waits for the care they get in the emergency rooms etc, because they know that they will never have to pay the hospital bills.

I have never understood this thought process. I always thought that everything in this world had to be worked for and earned. I was taught that I had to work for what I had and nothing was free. Am I wrong? Should we just sit back and let the government take care of us?

I used to work for an HMO in the Rochester NY area. I can remember the nurses in our Utilization Department arguing with the doctors who were trying to get their patients a referral for specialist treatment, or to be admitted to the hospital. The doctors would be livid because the nurse would state that the request is "denied" due to "policy".

This is the way it is right now. The INSURANCE COMPANIES are calling the shots. Not the doctors. Never mind the doctor is in charge of the patient's care - he/she has to get PERMISSION from the patient's insurance company.

While I'm not crazy about the concierge medical plan, I can understand the doctor's desire to do so. Bypass the insurance company and be the one in charge of the patient's care.

Anyone who thinks that insurance is going to make medical care free is sadly mistaken. Those of us who have insurance now are aware that some costs are covered and some are not, even for what most people would call "necessary care."

My medical coverage requires that I pay part of the first hospitalization costs and then 10% of everything after that, and I have a good plan. My wife had both knees replaced, after insurance coverage, we still owed about a thousand dollars.

Don't expect to do better than that regardless of what plan you get.

How about the blood sucking government? Always want to take away from someone to give to someone else. What ever happen to earning your own way? Many people in this country have worked long hard hours to get ahead. And now the government wants to take from them to give to the slackers. Doctors sacrificed alot to get ahead but everybody wants to punish them. In a perfect world we would all have everything we need. But also in a perfect world everybody would contribute the same.

Earning your own way is fine, but the average person just can't shell out $1300.00 a month for their insurance and then turn around and pay extra doctors' fees. I have no problem paying doctors, but in our country, if you choose to be uninsured and you get something like appendicitis, it'll bankrupt you.

Will it bankrupt Medicare recipients? Nope. They'll do just fine. T

Part of the problem with cost. Is everytime someone goes to the doctor they have to run all these high dollar tests. My doctor told me I had to have an MRI. Cost me $1000. Didn't learn anything. High tech medicine. Means high costs. The doctors do this to protect their butts, so you don't sue for malpractice. Which they have to pay a fortune to insurance companies to protect them from this. Another extra fee to do business.

And we as a nation have become a nation of whiners who want everything now and at little or no cost. I totally agree that costs have gotten out of control. But a lot of that is driven by technology, malpractice and just overuse of the system.

In many regards the insurance industry spoiled the consumer with the advent of copays and flat fees for hospital stays etc. This started 20 years ago or so. It was designed to steer the consumer to the doctors and hospitals that the insurance companies had negotiated favorable fee schedules. Good idea, the the law of unintended consequences kicked in.

Consuers got use to only paying a very low copay so they lost the true costs of health care. As time goes on, utilization goes way up, we as a country get unhealthy and technology drives up the cost. You have two choice, increase premiums or increase the patients finacial exposure, or actually both. And this is what has happened. The patients financial exposure has drastically increased right along with premiums. Utilization is climbing at an extremely alarming rate. More people wanting/needing care more frequently and that care costing more and more each day.

We do need to take steps to correct this situation, but I will tell you what we currently have in the Congress is not the answer. It will increase the numbers in the system, drive up costs and reduce care. You will find that only the rich will be able to afford to get high end care because more and more doctors will opt out of the system.

We need a more long term approach to correcting our healthcare system. Not just a total gutting of the system. One thing that must be included in any changes is that the consumer has to be more involved in understanding the true costs of their decisions on medical care.

If the government paid back to medicare what they owed use there would be no problem with it and take medicaide off from under it. Medicaide was put under it a few year back.If the insurance companys would pay for what a person went into the hospital for still no problem, My Mother had a heart act. and stroke at the same time and had a very good insurance, paid everything. When she died and we got ther bill there was a lot on the bill that she didn't get. I am a nurse and was there the whole time . I took the bill to the president of the hospital as soon as we got it. and showed him what she didn't get.he said "the insurance company only lets use charge for one thing so we choose the stroke to bill for as strokes take longer and have to have rehab." I said still no reasion to put these charges from other people on the bill.He said" sometimes it is by mistake when the medcine or artical is taken out of the computer holders that keep the things and someone pushed the wrong thing or number in for the patient" So I said this should be removed. He then said it has already been paid by the insurance companys. she had two policys. The health care needs revamped and honesty put in there. To say the least it wasn't corrected so am not naming the hospital. but as a nurse have seen this done more than once. We need healthcare reform, there are several things in it I don't agree with but from what I understand these things can be changed once the bill is passed.It seems like with the two parties even though both have been put on the panels one of them won't work with the other one and come up with a good healthcare bill. one party has the most votes but needs a couple of votes from the other party so give in on concessions to get the votes. Wish they would put a physican and a nurse on the panels might make a difference.

Good point Ogie.

The copay is why it is so hard to get in to see a doctor. Everybody with a sniffle thinks they need to see a doctor because it only costs $20. If it would cost them what a doctor needs to charge for a visit they would just deal with it and it would go away in a few days. Also the doctor wouldn't have to have such a big staff to take care of all the paper work plus all the extra nurses plus all the extra exam rooms. How much cost would this save.

Do you advocate forcing doctors into slavery? They are free to sell their services for what the market will bear. That's why a national insurance plan is such a lousy idea. Most people can do well just seeing a Nurse Practitioner or a Physician's Assistant. The care is good for a lower cost, but if the law requires that you see an MD, then you will pay for an MD.

The same goes for pharmaceuticals. As long as the testing requirements are so strict, the costs are going to be passed on to us. Many countries have less strict standards without people dying from the medicines. When you consider how many drugs this country has approved only to discover fatal side-effects, you have to wonder what good all the testing does.

bad bob-769378

Many people in this country have worked long hard hours to get ahead. And now the government wants to take from them to give to the slackers. Doctors sacrificed alot to get ahead but everybody wants to punish them. In a perfect world we would all have everything we need. But also in a perfect world everybody would contribute the same.

Since when did not being able to afford ridiculous insurance premiums automatically make people slackers? Especially in such a brutal economy! My family has been at that point... my husband and I were both laid off with a newborn baby about 8 years ago. It took well over a year to get back on our feet again. In that time... neither of us qualified for any healthcare other than our baby and I am so grateful that medicaid was available because he was not the healthiest of babies.

Life is secure now and our medical insurance is as good as gold but I remember all to clearly what the experience was like, and find it absolutely offensive to be referred to as a slacker.

8 years ago the economy was booming. We considered the people that weren't working then and up to about three years ago slackers. Sorry. By the way what field were you in and did you only try to find employment in those fields? What lifestyle did you lead? Could you have put money away for a rainy day? Or did you spend what you made? I put money away.

We were actually a couple years out of highschool with no further education... Baby was an oops (condoms are NOT guaranteed). Not a whole lot of employment opportunities in that situation.

He was a delivery driver and I was a deburrer for a precision metal shop. Not bad for what it was but throw a baby in the mix and it was by far not enough. There was no such thing as saving with the cost of living in Seattle and the cost of childcare. Everything was budgeted to the penny on a spreadsheet. Our money put a roof over our heads, fed us, and kept the heat on.

Not sure what you mean by lifestyle? I drove a piece of crap car and shopped thriftstores if that is what you mean.

I don't remember the prosperous times that you recall. Those had not shown up yet. We had actually downturned before we boomed and busted this last time. The company we worked for had been prosperous. First Christmas brought 500$ cash bonus, 2nd brought 100$, and the 3rd brought my layoff (his followed 2 months later, Jan of 02.

As for a field... there was no field... I applied everywhere from banks to retail.

We got out of the hole when he joined the ARMY. He is now a successful Special Forces soldier. HARDLY A SLACKER... infact quite the opposite.

Well said. If you have the money - go to the boutique doctors. Wait until you're medicare age - then you're going to hate the system because you can't find doctors that take it any longer - the GOVERNMENT doesn't reimburse those doctors enough to stay in business.

I'm sorry - but if you can afford it - just like anything else - you should have special care...

The way to lower cost is to cut out the middle men - ie the insurance companies. They take 1/3 of every health care dollar, then spend that to pay people to find things like a woman with cancer didn't think a case of acne was a big deal - so they can then deny her care.

They had their chance and they have brought this country to our knees with their greed and their unethical business practices. I feel this is the beginning of the end of them. And it's long overdue.

1devon, the insurance companies have nothing to do with why the actually amounts charged by doctors and medical providers are so high. Insurance companies are merely tasked with paying those medical bills with revenues they receive from premiums and with gains on investments. If you're going to point fingers then at least point them in the right direction but I guess I can't blame you since Congress is guilty of the same misguided direction.

The insurance companies sure as hell have a LOT to do with what they charge US. Pardon me for not shedding a tear for an industry that is bringing in profits in the billions while simultaneously killing Americans who have paid into them for years and years.

Keep protecting those insurance companies, then see what happens when you need care.

Yes, doctors have bills just like everyone else, but if they'd live in average size homes and drive economy sedans like everyone else (and sell their lake-front weekend retreats that everyone else doesn't even have in the first place) their cost of living would decrease, and they'd have more money to operate their business rather than their personal lives. A doctor's top priority should be to heal, not to get rich.

Insurance companies do negotiate the PPO and HMO reimburesements. But these reimbursements are much much higher than the medicare/medicaid reimbursements. These are so low that most doctors limit the amount of medicare patients that they see because literally it often costs the doctor to see those patients.

I am not saying insurance companies are perfect, because they are not. But their profit margins on the health insurance portion of their business is very low.

I do think there are things that need to be done to improve our system, but a total gutting of it is not needed. We need to take steps, fix medicare to where it is financially viable, get more primary care doctors into the system before we add millions of new people to the roles. Get the system ready for the changes, not change the system and then act surprise when it isn't capable of handling the changes.

One other thing, our economy can't handle this right now. Don't believe the numbers coming out regarding the cost of health care overhaul. A lot of the changes are put onto the backs of state budgets and not the federal government. Most states budgets are not in any type of shape to take the additional unfunded burdens that the health care reform puts on them.

1devon, I feel sorry for your misguided view of what's actually going on but insurance companies only have as much to do with what we are charged for medical services as they are capable of negotiating down those costs. Aside from that your premiums are based on what doctors and medical providers charge and their administration costs. You're more than welcome to pay your own medical bills out of pocket and see just how little insurance companies have to do with the high cost of medical care but I wouldn't recommend it. Again, contrary to your misinformed statements, health insurance companies have among the lowest profit margins of any health related industry and painting an accurate picture of what's going on, rather than the blatant misrepresentation being paraded around by the Democrats, is not defending insurance companies but merely allocating blame appropriately.

They make enough money even with the hmo's ppo's etc. alsong with the co payment. You can't tell me that charging 5.00 for use of a syrange is right whern it cost then 5 cents. or having to pay a nurse 18.00 to give an injection on tope of the medcine in it. I have my bills to prove it and know the cost of supplies.I have worked in the field too long
but whren it was passed in the 60"s that everything had tobe itamized it made taking a fishhook out of a finger got from 15.00 to 27.00 over night as had to itamize the bill or they wouldn't pay it.

Agreed, health insurance companies are sub par performers. I had one in my portfolio for a while and ended up selling it at a loss. Their overhead is something like one third of what government programs are because, unlike government, they have a motivation to cut overhead.

Governments are motivated to grow overhead to gain clout. How many government programs have shrunk over time? Quite the opposite, they only grow and suck more and more money, always threatening to go broke. This is true of social security, medicare, medicaid, the postal service, etc.

This latest socialist boondoggle will be the worst of them all. Expect hyper inflation in less than five years unless we flush the lot of them in 2010 and the socialist in chief in 2012.

Valhalla, I could be wrong but it is my understanding the the insurance companies' overhead is way higher than Medicare. r perhaps I am confusing administrative costs with overhead, I am not an expert on accounting terms. They spend a lot of money on marketing, for example. In any case, the percentage of income actually spent on claims is much higher for Medicare. And of course, their CEO's are much more costly than Medicare's...

For those who doubt that there is a link between your health care costs and what doctors can charge for services I suggest you have a look at the 'Medicare Fee Schedule'. This Magna Carta (which changes frequently and requires insight/coding experts equivalent to ancient heiroglyph interpretation) tells me what I can charge for any given service, surgery, treatment or management of disease. Where Medicare goes - so goes most private insurance, including Tricare. Add to that a complete knowledge of the ICD-9 codes (specialists only use a few, but family practitioners must be conversant with almost all.) 'Modifiers' (more numbers) must be added to billing documents in order to be 'accepted' by Medicare fiscal intermediaries. While Medicare (our 'socialized' medical plan for 65 and over) is actually quite a good plan - medicare HMO's, increasing premiums and drug plans have made it more cumbersome and lest we forget, Medicare was born in an age BEFORE the million dollar workup, interferon, biologics and immune response modifiers which everyone wants and demands (unless an immigrant is getting it). Ladies and gents : we CANNOT have it BOTH ways! We get what we pay for. No one will work for less, or free without compensations elsewhere. Do you want your Dr. to be mediocre? Or do you want the smart kid who beat out all his/her classmates in med school and can dissect out a malignant tumor without nicking a capillary, diagnose your disease and cure you with a minimum of fuss? You'll have to PAY for this skill. In medicine as in all things: you will get what you pay for.

Then we can end up just like the Soviet Union!

You do realize that you are making the exact same argument that was made against Medicare in the 1960s? And here we are, not Soviet at all after 40 years of it. Hmm.

Medicare is Broke, the argument was as right 40 years ago as it is today only this time it will not take as long.

I often think that in order SAVE Medicare dollars - there should be an opt-OUT program for those who make in excess of say, one million dollars annually. But even the 'rich', while screaming about curtainling MDCRE costs - don't opt out. Why? Because Medicare is pretty good given what passes for 'coverage' as one turns 65. in this country we have minds so brilliant that we can extract and sequence the DNA from the feces of a million year old warthog - yet we are still trying to deal with this rather basic issue....I find it rather embarrasing.

I have friends living in Canada, England, Ireland, and Australia. NONE of them can understand why we are so willing to pay thousands of dollars to corrupt companies who then turn around and deny care when it is most needed.

NOBODY wants America's health-care system. They are laughing at us, and especially at the tea baggers.

Devon, based on your 'rant', you may want to see a physician for your mental health medicine.

d.martin - although your point is well taken, please consider that those aformentioned nations are essentially homogenous societies where common ancestry, national sense of self and economy are SHARED. By comparison WE in the USA are virtually ALL different. Religions, diet, somatotype, cultural imperatives, ad infinitum are NOT THE SAME. We don't have enough IN COMMON with another (in our own minds) to be willing to contribute to a common cause. We can't even agree on the simplest detail of daily life without bickering amongst ourselves. How do you think such a unified plan would be by the masses when we can stop coveting what our neighbor has and wondering 'where does he get the money for that?" I don't think we, as a nation, have the cohones and it embarasses me to say it. The minute someone lays claim to a service which we feel is not righteously theirs - we have a fit. Case in point - Food Stamps.

I have family in the UK and based on their experience what you are saying is propaganda.

I agree. I have family in England and Ireland, and friends in Canada and Australia. Several of them have had health battles, including cancer, and all are alive and well to talk about it today. They do not feel they were given poor quality care at all.

According to Canada's own website, the "goal" for chemo delay is 9 weeks and they are averaging 13. I don't know about you but if my doctor said I needed chemo, I'd want it NOW, not 9 or 13 weeks from now. The fact that your relatives and friends beat the odds does not mean that everyone does. Statistically, America's cancer survival rates are vastly superior to Europe and Canada.

Even in Canada, the richer provinces have better care than the poorer ones so there is nothing new there. The fact that all these socialist health care plans are going to a two tear system proves the point that socialized medicine does not work.

RLW, well, doc, you are not in the only profession that requires years and years of expensive training. Why should you expect to make more than a college professor, an aerospace engineer, an orchestra musician...on and on. And don't give me the argument that you save lives. Firemen save lives, heck, they RISK their own lives, and look what they get paid. The dirty little truth is that the medical community has artificially kept the number of physicians we turn out in America very low, so there isn't any competition. You've made yourselves a rare commodity so you could get rich. Why should all of America pay for that?

NHLucky - well, why didn't you? I suppose you did not want to study until you are 30, and finish school with over $100.000 in student loans. I can't blame you for that! Most of us don't want to do that either. But then we have to compensate those who are willing to do it.

@NHLucky...

because honestly, as a college student I know this: it is MUCH DAMN HARDER to become a doctor than a college professor, an aerospace engineer, or especially an orchestra musician!

First of all nobody wants to go through the MANY TOUGH, PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY EXHAUSTING years to train to be a doctor. Being a college professor or even an Aerospace Engineer is still MUCH, MUCH less physically taxing than having to intern in a hospital, let alone go through training. In addition you are able to earn very little (and rack up lots of loans) to go through med school while to become a professor you usually get lots of scholarships as well as good jobs (especially if you are pursuing an engineering track) to fund your way through. You also graduate a lot earlier.

Second of all, your responsibility as a doctor is much more. You have much more to lose from a small mistake (you can kill someone!) versus oh, what.... you're 5 minutes late to a lecture. Oh, whoops, you accidentally wrote somethign wrong... Oh, your proof was incorrect. There's a lot more intensity to the job and that's also why it pays higher.

The education required to be a doctor is also insane - far more practical training than you would know exists. But then and again you are such an idiot that you compare being a doctor to being an orchestra musician! Ha!

Oh... and also demand. You will pay a lot more for a doctor to save your pathetic stupid little a** than you will pay a college professor... obviously shown by your level of education. You will definitely pay more to him than an aerospace engineer whose work you can't understand anyway.

In other words, America pays because America chooses to pay.

Supply and demand... something you clearly don't understand.

db -- I'm not opposed to fair compensation. I am opposed to exorbitant compensation and an artifcially lowered supply of physicians that make them able to charge exorbitant rates.

katskill and devon:

It's great that your families in Britain, etc., have had excellent results from their treatment of cancer. Review of statistics, e.g., WHO, will reveal to you, though, that the US consistently ranks better than other nations in the treatment of cancer (this in spite of the WHO generally ranking the US health lower than most other industrialized nations).

Funny thing about statistics is this: if there's a ten percent negative outcome overall, but your outcome is bad, then for you, it's one hundred percent. Opposite goes for the positive outcome; just because you happen to know someone who's had a good outcome doesn't mean that the system works for everyone.

Kevin, you make some very good points. It is hard and expensive to become a doctor. And those who make it through and take the risk deserve appropriate compensation. I get a little tired of that argument leading to claims that they deserve so very much more, that's all.

I do wish you could just make your points and refrain from insults. This is a discussion, I thought. There is no need to belittle me or anyone else.

As far as supply and demand goes, I understand very well that by keeping the supply low, one increases the value of a product. In this case, doctors. And I disagree that America pays because America chooses to pay. America pays because it doesn't have an alternative.

America does have an alternative. These guys didn't have to become doctors, we could go with no doctors at all if the price is fixed low enough.

The alternative to your idea of "horrible rip-off doctors" is to simply refuse to pay for their services, and just enjoy your days, save your money for living in the here and now instead of worrying about medical expenses, or bequeath it to your children.

Exactly, I also run a business, if someone wants extra they can pay for it. Doctors can't give the same service for diffrent price. Maybe if the doctors didn't have to see people for free. They wouldn't have to make up new ways to make their money. People always want to tell someone else how much they should make. But if someone tells them that they are making too much and should take a cut listen to them cry.

DCBUFFALO, You are so right on all counts. People see their medical bills and grumble, "Greedy doctors," or mistakenly assume that all doctors are rich. In fact, most doctors are much closer to poor working stiffs in net income than they are to investment bankers or corporate CEOs; the main exceptions are cosmetic plastic surgeons, who do elective procedures that are not covered by insurance anyway. The doctor provides a service for which he or she has been highly trained; the insurance company undervalues that service, forcing the doctor to see more patients in less time. Meanwhile, the insurer keeps jacking up premiums and pocketing the difference. We are being fleeced by private insurers, who have bought off most of our elected representatives!

Perhaps the problem lies in the cost of school, if the doctors didn't have to pay so much, the cost wouldn't be passed on to us. We should be going after all the high cost liberal colleges, the knowledge is there why pay so much for someone to read aloud out of a book (yes I know its alot more than that).

We are not being fleeced by insurance companies! If we were they would be much more profitable. They are lousy investments because they don't make even the market average. If you think they are such great money makers, by all means put your retirement money into one and see what happens.

Lay off the Kool-Ade my friend, you've bought the propaganda.

Really Phil? Explain why my HMO has been able to pay out BONUSES to their employees each year (at least $2000 for EACH employee). They're doing mighty good if they can afford to do this.

On top of that, they're asking for double digit premium increases.

Nice.

Perhaps Ridgelon we should get the government out of this and realize that regulation hurts!

Spend all that bureaucratic money and honestly, let the private free enterprise work itself out (don't go benefitting insurance companies either, ESPECIALLY NOT by requiring all Americans to purchase it!), and as for the poor?

Seriously, take all the money you would have spent on bureaucracy, and give them a subsidy based on income. Let them either do pay-as-you-go or let them use the money to purchase a private health insurance plan (by allowing free competition instead of banning purchasing insurance across state lines, you ALSO will LOWER insurance prices by removing their monopolies which your favorite oh-so-loved GOVERNMENT set up). You'll see with the economics of scale, they will be MUCH MORE able to purchase health care under that system.

"They are spending our childrens money now like drunken sailors."

But, George... where were you when the previous administration was ensuring that our children & grandchildren would be saddled with the debt of his phoney war????? I don't think I heard you complaining then.

Spending money to help people is way better than spending it to kill them!

Not if you don't have it to spend, and this country does not have it !! Anyone that thinks we are going to add 30 million deadbeats to the system and that it is not going to explode the deficit is either naive or one of the deadbeats looking for a handout.

The Wars? we were attacked, do you not recall? It is people like you that were in power that did nothing until we were attacked on U S soil. You now have your main in the oval office and I see no change in the wars, do you?

maybe because we need to fight our enemies? You support another entitlement benefit that you or the country cannot pay for, like our existing SS and medicare benefits. Sounds like a great plan, do you have children? I hope you do so they can pay for your mistake in supporting this. You sound like a typical liberal spending other people's money for yout social cause.

mizn

So, mizn you like to have access to the freedoms within this nation borders such as religion and speech but, don't feel that there is a price to be paid (usually by patriots such as our soldiers) for that freedom and it's continuation? I see those soldiers eyes everyday at BAMC in San Antonio and all are willing to go back to again defend those freedoms from Terrorists so that you can continue to work against them and what they stand for. Sounds like you need to be paying taxes in oh...maybe Cuba or Russia or, Korea? I will pay any monetary debt against the spread of tyranny or oppression and terrorism with either money or my own or my childrens blood; will you?

Obama is making Bush look like a miser. He is on track to triple our national debt. If Bush's debt was so bad, why is Obama's spending more than all previous administrations combined good? You really need to grow a synapse or three.

George, please. Spare me the "you aren't a patriot you better move to Cuba" argument. The war in Iraq was a "war of choice" that had nothing to do with protecting us from terrorism and oppression. One of the shining things about America is that all of us love her and can disagree about what is best for her. Without being called unpatriotic -- in an ideal world anyway. Give it a rest and don't be so sanctimonious, huh?

Your right you don't owe me a thing. I'm not asking for anything free. I am asking for affordable health care, that's all. I have never been on welfare or even accepted unemployment. I have had a job since I was 13 years old. I was never able to be a stay at home mom. I worked at nights when my husband could be a home with the children. Since my husband retired at the age of 64 due to medical reasons (a stroke), he had COBRA for 6 months until he became 65 and medicare took over. COBRA coverage was out of the question for me as we would have had to pay almost $800 a month and couldn't afford it. I found a health care policy that would pay a little in case I had to go into the hospital for something, but that's all. Last year I upgraded my policy so I could go to the doctor for routine tests such as mammograms and blood tests as I take a mild high blood pressure medicine. I pay $ 300 a month for this, but it won't cover my blood test for 2 years because it is a pre existing condition, I'm not a new customer, just upgraded but it still is pre-existing and not covered. I had a mammogram and bone density test done on the same day, the insurance company only paid for the mammogram, not the bone density test, because, get this--that was equivalent to 2 xray procedures in one day and they will only cover one a day. I would have had to take extra time off work and go on 2 separate days to have both paid for. This is right? I go to the doctor 4 times a year to have my blood pressure checked. That's all. He knows he's not allowed to diagnose anything else because if I could ever afford a better policy it would become a preexisting condition and not covered. Oh and by the way starting in January my premium for the little insurance I have goes up $20. a month. So I will be paying $3,840. a year for 4 office calls. I pay for my own medications too. That's $600.00 a year. Yes your right you don't owe me anything. I'm not asking for a hand out. Just a chance at affordable healthcare.

J.A. agree with you on affordabe but, the way and the process that them Dems are using will bring al the conutry into a system that does not need to exist. Competiton across state lines...Tort reform...subsidized insurance for the poor and neglected that can all be done w/o the enormous cost this bill will incur. They (the Dems), are not after Healthcare Reform. They are Reforming the Government through Healthcare to own all Americans lives from womb to tomb.

I won't argue your point, because I can't, your right. But what I see in Washington right know are a group of men and women who frankly I believe are acting like children. The Dems saying as they kick and scream, "We want our way and we're going to get it." The Repubs saying as they kick and scream "no, no, no, if we can't have our way, you can't have yours." There is no real interest in Washington for the people of this country. The interest is purely party oriented. There is no spirit of give and take between the sides. The idea of compromise wouldn't even occur to them because all that matters is getting they're own way, just like spoiled children. The Dems want to shove this down our throat, and as you say I'm not sure all of it is such a good idea, on the other hand the Repubs play lip service to reform as they would take status quo as being okay for them, they really don't see what's wrong with the current system. The American people are the losers in this battle no matter which way it goes.

Tort reform is a solution, republicans are for it. exchanges are another solution, republicans are for them. Competition across state lines is another solution, republicans are for it. What they are against is a complete fascist take over of one sixth of our economy.

Democrats claim that repbulicans don't have a plan but you don't need a plan, you just need a few tweaks to a system that 85% of the people support. What you do not need is a complete socialist take over. It will break the country or cause massive rationing.

Don't the exchanges created as part of the bill allow for competition across state lines?

The exchanges allow for a virtual monopoly by forcing Americans to purchase health insurance. If you didn't do that, the insurance companies would face competition from these awesome pay-as-you-go guys.

The rest of us pay for your children's schools even if we don't have kids. Most people don't complain about it because we care about the common good of the country.

Your reply is totally self-centered and unpatriotic.

I have no problems paying the doctors themselves, but what is your plan in the event of a *serious* illness? What happens if you need an emergency operation or are hospitalized for an extended period of time. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars on stand by, and that may not be enough, ..you're as good as dead...

Somehow veterinarians spend the same amount of time in school, yet charge $20 - 30 per office visit, and perform routine surgeries for a very reasonable fee. Why? Their hospitals are on premise and most don't deal with 'pet' insurance.

Yes, we need to get rid of the insurance companies, but we also need to address hospital charges.

Perhaps you should think a little before you write.

Dogs and cats don't have standing to sue veterinarians for malpractice. So insurance costs for a veterinarian are quite low. Also as a result, veterinarians have no need to practice expensive "defensive" medicine, ordering tests and procedures simply to defend themselves if wrongfully sued in court. In veterinary medicine as a rule a "CAT" or "DOG" scan is 30 seconds with the eyeball, not 30 minutes with a $4,000,000 machine. The FDA does not impose incredibly expensive approval requirements on drugs used for veterinary purposes and triple their distribution costs with expensive control and dispensing costs; e.g., your dog does not have to pay a pharmacist for a little penicilin. Need I point out that nobody has to be paid to change the sheets at the veterinary hospital? Finally, as a rule animals are "put to sleep" when their health has deteriorated enough to impair quality of life. So veterinariian costs for CATastrophic "end-of-life" care .

But, if you want to be treated like a dog, the good news is the Democrats in Congress have a plan for you. Sadly, it will not cost much less because the lawyers will still be able to sue for malpractice.

How stupid. Their owners pay the bills and vets have absolutely been sued for malpractice. Millions of times over.

And if you've bothered to take your animal to a vet recently, you'll find there's a lot of preventative medicine suggested. Are MRI's done on pets? You bet. In MRI facilities at a fraction of the cost they are done on people for.

You completely missed the point of that one paragraph entirely. What I'm saying is that veterinarians do the same things doctors do for a much lower cost. Somehow they manage just fine. We need to look at reducing costs all over. It CAN be done, but we need to look at hospital waste and inflated charges.

And if I COULD, I'd choose the care my animals get over the care my insurance company provides. The animals make out much better.

Oh and animals also can be prescribed meds that need to be picked up at pharmacies. But most often they are not because veterinaries have also cut them out for the most part by stocking medicines and dispensing them in their office.

Yes, and Patents on Drugs for companies creating them need to be extended and have options for continuance so, that the costs of meds can go down. Corporations have to recover their investment costs from medicines over usually a 6 year period after FDA approval under a 20 year patent This means a shorter window to recover costs. So, we pay higher drug bills. Lengthen the Patent coverage and extend options for continuacne so that they can recover over a longer period and our drug costs will come down. Also, let them have the ability to create their own generics when the patents come off. If you want to recover some monies from them then have them pay the government for extended patent coverage.

1devon... The idea is you can either choose to invest the money yourself (you may actually find a lot more millions than you would have thought if you put it in CDs/mutual funds/T-bonds instead of the health insurance market!) or you can take the chance and run the risk. Live a little better now, but risk dying of cancer because you CHOSE to spend your money having fun instead of keeping a side pocket or insurance policy for the "just in case" scheme.

What if I'd rather spend my money having fun now even if it means I may die a few years earlier of untreated heart disease? Shouldn't that be for me to decide, not Big Brother?

You must not live in Canada. I have lived in both, and I will tell you that health care in the US is great as long as you have money and the doctor isn't trying to give you the most expensive treatment to make the most money he/she can. Whereas in Canada, it is all about preventative health care, and being able to walk into any clinic or hospital at any time and get treated for your illness. I have lived with both systems and each dispense good medical care so I will have to opt for Canada's where I can see a doctor at any time.

That is why all you Canadians come here to Florida in the winter and all the doctors office parking lots are full of canadian plate.?

It does work. Do your research and quit listening to Beck the idiot. Either you believe that access to health care should be for all Americans or you don't but it works in Canada, France, the UK, Mexico, China, etc., etc. Just to some research from reputable sources and you and others. The government certainly does not run my life just because I have been educated in public schools, am on medicare and receive social security. Get a grip!!!

Settersperch...that is a moronic statement. Canadians coming to FL in the winter is no different than New Englanders spending their winters down here or other US citizens who spend their winters in Palm Springs or Phoenix. They're mostly ELDERLY and they need medical care wherever they are. Half of my family is from Canada and they owned property in Pompano Beach for over 50 yrs. They certainly weren't coming here for the medical care. They think our system is a JOKE. Also...countries like Canada, UK and Australia sell travel health insurance.... DIRT CHEAP and that's what covers these "tourists" and ex-pats while they're here and abroad.

If care here is so "wonderful"... why do 45 MILLION US citizens go ABROAD for medical care each year to places like Germany, Switzerland, Sweden and even Singapore and India where the hospitals ( believe it or not ) are "state of the art" and the healthcare costs about 1/5 of what it costs in the US and the care is 10x better ? Don't believe me... look up MEDICAL TOURISM. Oh... and BESIDES getting some of the BEST healthcare in the world... they also get World Class accommodation AND a tax deduction to boot for their medical AND travel expenses. There are world class facilities in MEXICO even, run by AMERICANS....why ? Because they can afford to give better quality health care for a FRACTION of the cost here...plus the patients also get the "perks" mentioned above.

"National/socialized healthcare doesn't work in Canada, or the UK, sometimes it takes months to even see a GP,"

And yet up above, there's a guy just like you, against the healthcare bill, who is angry that he can't get in to see his doctor at all - that it can take weeks. So how is this different?

"and it sure won't work here, Look at all the other govenment run programs."

True. Look at our corrupt police forces. Look at how our military can't even win two wars against some goatherding, ignoramuses who have primitive weapons and even more primitive minds?!

"This country was built not having the Government running our lives." Damned right. But yet people think they have a right to have government run it, whether it's monitoring our phone calls in the name of "security", telling us we have to buy health insurance, telling us we have to be politically correct, or denying us the right to marry who we want. Everybody, down to a person, wants nanny government in some form or another. They just hate the OTHER guys' form of nannying.

mesonto....The Canadian system does not prevent Canadians from dying...that's the difference.

George Machock--I agree that our system is really great, I totally love that it stops people from dying. Just ask my grandparents...oh wait, all four are dead. Nevermind.

George, I am so sorry to break the news. Nobody can prevent us from dying. But they can prevent us from dying naturally with dignity by hooking us up to machines, staving off the end for a month or two, and charging Medicare hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don't know about you, but I'll take the Canadian system. And I think most Americans would at the end of their life. Who wants to die in an ICU with tubes and wires and beeping when you could be home in your bed looking out the window? Not me.

Gemini,

Where do you get the figure of 45 million go abroad? I seriously doubt that almost 125,000 go each day. I admit I was one who done the medical tourism thing in Thailand and it was good and it was inexpensive. In visiting with my local Dr. here in the states and discussing why it is so much cheaper the conversation went like this. The only things that I could think of why it was less expensive there was labor, profit and insurance as the education and equipment was the same. I was told that the big item was we are paying for everyone who was not paying. If this joke of a bill passes now we ALL will be paying for the non payers and it will not be any cheaper.

Assuming that the government will not squander our money like they always have. Social Security would have worked if the government had keep their hands out of the money, now its bankrupt, thanks to the only employees that can vote themselves a raise without asking the boss.

Rick, fine unless you get really sick and end up in the hospital. I don't think most people could cover that. A high -deductible plan could work, though. I think the Senate bill allows for several types of coverage with varying levels of deductible. Then serious or catastrophic illnesses would be covered.

Which God?

Barney... EXACTLY. Actually...'god' doesn't HAVE a position on abortion. He would actually have to EXIST so RaceRock.. your point is moot.

Good idea, and then lets ask him how he feels about society caring for that child if the parents can't or won't... I think he would like our ADC programs, education programs etc. He would be a liberal, no doubt.